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Talk:Herald
Question Guys? Guys? Can someone expain me something? From where came these English names? I still dont get it: Daitenshi means "ARCHANGEL" or "GREAT ANGEL", why its called "SERAPH"? :Because that is what Atlus USA chose to localize it as before they decided on Herald. Simple as that.--Otherarrow (talk) 17:25, May 17, 2013 (UTC) :There are multiple reasons. First, there's character limit. The name 'Archangel' simply wouldn't fit within the character limit for clan titles of SMTIII (which I believe was six) and would require recoding the limit level, which would interfere with the placement of demon names, and that would need recoding... etc. It's a domino effect with the coding and would thus cost more on a game they were already taking a chance with. 'Daitenshi' also goes over that limit when put into English. They couldn't use Archangel if it did fit because there's already a demon called Archangel... and the same goes for calling it just 'Angel'. Name's already taken. So you try to think of a name with six letters or less that makes you think of a messenger of God but isn't in use already... Bam, Seraph. Now, skip a few years to your plan to release Strange Journey. There's now a demon in the 'Seraph' clan that's called... Seraph. Well damn. What we need is a new buzz word that'll put you in mind of a messenger of God. Then some sharp translator thought "Herald". And whoever that was, hats off. It's a great word. Like whoever thought of 'Grave'. I'd rather SMTIV used Grave instead of Undead, it sounds way better. -- MutheSquirrel 03:20, April 15, 2014 (GMT) Move request I think we should move this article to Herald because this is how Atlus localizes Daitenshi lately, the archangels even directly refer themselves the "Heralds of God" in the story. And Seraph as the race title is a misnomer. -- Inpursuit (talk) 01:28, August 5, 2013 (UTC) :I don't think we've moved from "English race name" to "different English race name" before, but on the other hand, I don't think it has come up before outside of IMAGINE (The other example I can think of is Fury, which has three English names) . At the time Herald first came up, I kinda just shrugged it off as "they had to rename it because they are including Seraph the demon" but Soul Hackers and IV reuses it and Seraph is only in one of those. I am in favor of moving to Herald...except that it means changing a lot of links and replacing a lot of categories. It's hassle enough to fix the links/categories the "smaller" races, but Herald is pretty well established with tons of demons. I don't think I can do it on my own, at least not all at once.--Otherarrow (talk) 03:19, August 5, 2013 (UTC) ::You can always ask for bot operation in http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Board:Support_Requests_-_Getting_Technical Wikia community or to Wikia staff directly. Bit of digress, unless the link creates double redirect, you don't need to fix the link to redirect page by using piped link for bypassing redirect (e.g. Herald -> Herald. This creates more work when page moved. See do not "fix" links to redirects that are not broken. -- Inpursuit (talk) 04:07, August 5, 2013 (UTC) ::Yes, fixing redirects does call more work for the time being, but it avoids problems later. Lets say, hypothetically, we do move Seraph (race) to Herald but don't fix the links to Seraph (race). Then, for whatever reason, let's say that we have to move to something else. Tada, now we have a massive amount of double redirects that require changing anyway. Also, we are not Wikipedia, and what works best for Wikipedia might not necessarily work best here. Anyway, I think we should wait to see what the other users say before we do anything.--Otherarrow (talk) 15:43, August 5, 2013 (UTC) Hallel I noticed that the name used for the Seraph/Herald race in Majin Tensei II wasn't the normal Daitensei, but rather Shitensei. The term seemed familiar to me, so I looked it up, and indeed, the Japanese name for Nocturne's Hallel race is indeed Shitensei and identical to the Majin Tensei II name for Seraph/Herald. Should we do anything about that? Is it just worth noting, worth a page merge (similar to how we group together Datensei/Fallen Angel and Futensei/Nonangel from Giten Megami Tensei), or what?--Otherarrow (talk) 01:00, April 24, 2014 (UTC) :The Majin Tensei 2 Shitenshi race simply falls to the misnomer category because it tried to adhere to the rule that race title should be written in Kanji instead of Kana, they simply translated "Serahu" to "Shitenshi" literally until SMT2 fixed this misnomer by using "Daitenshi" (Archangel). The use of Shitenshi in Nocturne is partially accurate because the original design of Ose Hallel (but not Flauros Hallel and the in-game model of both Hallels) features six wings, the legit appearance of an actual seraph. -- Inpursuit (talk) 11:19, April 24, 2014 (UTC) ::Uh, Majin Tensei II was made and released after Shin Megami Tensei II, so I doubt that Shitensei was a derived from Serahu from SMTI. If I recall, that isn't the only race to have a different name in MaTII than in other games. Either way, while that is nice trivia and all, it doesn't actually answer any of my questions.--Otherarrow (talk) 11:24, April 24, 2014 (UTC) :::I think for a race article with a confusing naming history, we can change the appearance section to denote the JP and NA names in the form a wiki table, that will be more informative than a trivia section. -- Inpursuit (talk) 11:41, April 24, 2014 (UTC) ::::Fair enough, so what does that leave the Nocturne Hallel race?--Otherarrow (talk) 11:44, April 24, 2014 (UTC) I don't think it needs romajis because they just bloated the table badly and are already denoted in the lede. -- Inpursuit (talk) 11:55, April 24, 2014 (UTC)